Interview with Amnon Darsa

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Interview with Amnon Darsa

Amnon Darsa is a Krav Maga Instructor working as part of an elite global team across the world. He recently visited the UK to teach at seminars in Birmingham, Dublin and Bristol. Before flying home to Israel, Amnon managed to squeeze an interview into his busy schedule. Amnon is rated as an expert level Instructor and is one of few to teach, Police, Civilians, Military and VIP Protection Internationally.

Amnon Darsa speaks with Paul Grey of Krav Maga Bristol

Thank you for taking some time out of your busy schedule Amnon. Can we start with how you get started in Krav Maga?

I was looking for something to train in, such as basketball, judo or something similar. A friend of mine started training in Krav Maga. He came to me and was really excited telling me about the training he was doing. This got me interested. We started training and I really enjoyed it, I was really committed. My friend left training after 2 years but as you can see I am still here.

How old were you when you started?
I was 13 when I started training in Krav Maga.

Did you ever train under Imi Lichtenfeld (sde or), the founder?
Yes. Imi was still alive. But Imi was very old then and very sick. He would come and watch. He would sometimes get up to show a technique or talk about something. Imi was a gentleman. He would talk to all of the students and show them things. It did not matter what level they were, Imi was a real gentleman. But as I said he was very old then, mostly he sat and watched as he was also very sick.
That must have been something to train in front of the founder?
I knew it was something to train under him as he was very high in the system, but perhaps I did not fully appreciate it. Looking back now I realize it was something special.

Is Krav Maga popular in Israel?
Krav Maga is quite popular in Israel. In Israel everybody must go into the military so everbody knows of Krav Maga. There are many different organisations teaching Krav Maga to civilians in Israel. We, (the international Krav Maga Federation), are quite separate from them, they are all separate from one another. Krav Maga is also taught in schools in Israel, and is mandatory in some schools for children over 12 years old. It all depends on the principle of the school whether Krav Maga is a mandatory or optional.

I've noticed there are distinct approaches to Krav Maga, say for example the difference between military Krav Maga and civilian Krav Maga could you tell us little about this?
Krav Maga is divided into different approaches. The first is the civilian Krav Maga, the self-defence skills for the civilian population. Second there is the military Krav Maga. This is where Krav Maga came from. Krav Maga was another tool for the soldier to go to war with. Just like a gun or a plane there was Krav Maga. The aero plane could be for very long distances, the gun for closer and Krav Maga for very close. Perhaps if a soldier lost his gun or was injured, then he still had Krav Maga. It was simply another tool. We also have Krav Maga for the police and Krav Maga for protecting another person or VIP protection. They are all a little different. But they are all based on finding the best solution for the problem, (type of attack) at hand. For a civilian this may mean to break free and run away, for a soldier perhaps to kill his enemy. Krav Maga is always based on finding the best solution for the problem. Also the problems experienced by a soldier are different from that experienced by a civilian so we Krav Maga must adapt to deal with this.

krav maga gun defence

Are the largest number of students in Israel civilians or Military?
The civilian population is the largest group. We also teach the military and police forces, VIP protection and security units. But we are teaching military different things. We're not teaching them so many techniques such as to escape from chokes or attacks. We teach them more defending against somebody taking their weapon or attacking with a knife. Identifying threats is also more of a problem. Krav Maga needs to find the problem and prevent it. This is the job of security forces, to find the problem and stop it. Preferably before anything can happen. But this is not always the case. This is the Krav Maga side of security.

Do you teach many security personnel?
Yes. In Israel security personel must have a licence. To get this they must train in shooting and Krav Maga. They must also have first aid and fire fighting training but these are not so big parts of training. It’s mostly Krav Maga and shooting. They learn to identify problems and find the best solution. It is best that this happens before the situation becomes very problematic.

Krav Maga seems to be getting more popular here in the UK is this trend you have seen internationally?
Yes I think so. It really depends on the level of problems in that country. Where there are more problems, people need Krav Maga. When people are concerned about their levels of safety and security they want to train more in Krav Maga. Some people go to Krav Maga; some people go to karate or whatever they choose. Another thing that is helping us grow is that Krav Maga is not a sport. It is primarily for use in the street, for realistic self-defence. It’s practical and easy to learn, people like this. This attracts people. I like to think they stay because of this. Also we have more instructors today than 10 years ago. This is because there is now more publicity, people are now more aware of Krav Maga. Now you see Krav Maga in the martial arts magazines, you see it in the regular magazines so people are more aware of Krav Maga now. As we get more instructors, more people will see Krav Maga and decide they want to try it. This will make Krav Maga bigger. Previously there were no Krav Maga instructors so people could not start, they would do karate or boxing or something else.

Do you think Krav Maga is expanding because of changes in the type of violence we experience?
People are becoming interested in Krav Maga because they want something that is reality based. Lots of people are now using this phrase 'reality based', or streetwise, or whatever. This is to show people that they are training for the street. Whether it's true or not, this is another thing. It depends on the instructor.

What do you think attracts people to Krav Maga in particular?
Some people may be coming because it is fashionable to train in Krav Maga. It's fashionable to be training in reality based now. But this is not why they stay. People stay in Krav Maga because it's really giving answers to the problems they might face in the street today. This is what Krav Maga was made for. This is what makes Krav Maga strong. This is what I believe, whether it's true or not I can't say.

krav maga knife defence

Do you cross train?
Of course.

I train in Thai Boxing to improve my stand-up skills and I also train in BJJ because I like it It's more like a mind game or a chess match than anything else. Because you have to think what the other man wants to do and then prevent him from doing it. This is good training. It's a good workout so I like it very much. But I am training in Krav Maga for self-defense on the street.
I like Thai boxing because it is the hardest, toughest, stand up fighting system but I love BJJ because it's pure ground fighting so the combination of the BJJ, Mauy Thai and Krav Maga is really good. These things really help you grow and develop as a fighter. Of course there is also mixed martial arts today, this has some stand-up and some ground fighting so you can also do mixed martial arts.

However, it's better to go and learn stand up fighting from a stand-up fighter and ground fighting from the ground fighter than to go to someone who's good all-around. It's not that they're bad instructors, it's just if you want to learn from the best you should go to someone who does just that. And then you can incorporate this however you want, into your own stuff.

What countries have you trained people in?
There are a lot, (laughs). Let's start from the North, the Scandinavian countries, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Balkans down to Croatia, Poland, England ,Germany, France, Israel, America, Singapore, India, Australia, Thailand, basically all over.
Is there much of the difference between teaching say people from somewhere like England to Russia?
We don't present Krav Maga very differently. It does not matter where you are, Krav Maga is the same. If there is a problem we find a solution. It is the approach we use that changes. For example. When I taught in Russia for the first week of the instructor’s course, I had to actually punch people and hurt them so they will understand Krav Maga works. In other countries it's enough to be tough and not to hurt people so much. You can just explain, it depends on the country. But in all countries there will be one, the guy who will try to test you. But this is more local behavior. And this does not affect how I teach Krav Maga. I teach Krav Maga the same. It's just the behavior of the students these change. But soon they are ‘adjusted’ and then they listen. Students from different countries may have different behaviors.

As a teacher of instructors, do your students trying test you very often?
This depends on the group, sometimes yes sometimes no. In Russia for example people were trying to test me more than Finland. In Poland I had to show that I was as tough as them, if not more so. Then they were relaxed and they stop testing. In some countries the tests are by people just attacking me when I am walking around in correcting them just sneaky attacks like little ‘nibbles’ to test me.

Are these serious full speed attacks or something less?
Often they are like little nibbles, like little fishes, people are testing me to see if I'm reacting. I always have to be on my toes. It's like here today, (Bristol); there were a few people who are testing me. When people do this I defend myself and I attack back in the same way they have attacked me. In this way people learn ‘you can play but be careful’. People often want to test the instructor. I am not taking this is an insult because this is normal human behavior, to test something to see if it works. This is like a small challenge. I don't take it personally and I am always adjusting my level of reaction to the nature of the problem, (type of attack). When I was a young instructor this was harder to do, I was tougher with people. But now I'm older I adjust my reaction to them. My solution is proportional to the problem.

You teach Krav Maga to many different people, what aspects of Krav Maga do you teach?
I teach Krav Maga to civilians, to the military, to the police and security units also. I also teach VIP protection. I believe I am the youngest one teaching all of this in the international Krav Maga Federation. At the moment I am the only one to teach all of these in the Federation. But this will change in time. Sometimes I am doing these by myself or at other times I am teaching with other senior instructors from the IKMF. It depends who is free.

Something a lot of Krav Maga students ask is how do Krav Maga levels relate to traditional martial arts belts?
Expert level, is about equivalent to a black belt. The problem we had, is that because of it has become so easy to get a Black Belt, the name of Black Belt has become not so good. In some systems now it has become so easy to get a Black Belt that when you tell somebody ‘I have a Belt Belt’, it no longer means something. So, because of this we did not want to use this system of grading. It is a something that takes us apart from other people. We have the patch system to award different levels.

Yes, I know what you mean. I have seen cases where children have received black belts at quite young ages. I can't help but wonder where they can go after they've received this black belt or even if they understand what it means.
This is one of the reasons that we changed and decided to have different levels. Now we have this system it is more or less what we want but I can tell you we had been experimenting with a lot of things before we were happy.

The IKMF seems to be very aware of quality control. Is this why the IKMF International team grade all students every other level ?
Yes. This is our way of grading; there should be no favors, no friends. No one controlling the level. This is our way of quality control. We want to be able to say that somebody earned his level because he was good, not because he was a friend of the instructor. I can be your instructor but if I am testing you, I should not be affected by that. I should be able to say to you either, you're good enough or you're not good enough. If you're not good enough you need to work. This is not always the case with instructors.

How hard is it to get to Expert level in the Krav Maga system?
In Krav Maga we believe that everybody should be able to make Expert level. The only problem is how much time you want to devote to this. I can tell you that in Krav Maga system globally, there are people who have made Expert level from instructor in 3 or 4 years. These people were training every day. They were basically following us around the world. So if I was in Germany they would come to Germany. If Eyal was in Poland they would come to Poland. They would follow us everywhere to get as much training as they can. But what is an Expert level, what does it mean?

It means only one thing. It means technical ability nothing more than this. It does not say you are a good fighter, it does not say you will survive on the streets. It does not say how you will perform under less stress or more stress. It is a technical thing. An expert level could succumb to the first attack because he will go into shock, where as a P1, who just learned the basic defences but was alert and reactive, will save his own life. I don't know, it's just a grade. A grade in all martial arts means just the same. Its about the amount of time you're training and your technical ability. That's it.

So if you put your mind to it there's no problem to do this, (attain Expert level). Some people have to take longer, others who may be young and talented will get to do this in maybe 3 or 4 years. Some people will not. It may take these people 10 years; it may take these people 15 years I don't know. But if you put your mind into it I don't think there is a problem to achieve Expert level.

For my first Expert level test I failed, We still called it Black Belt then. I was not ready, I failed. I deserved to fail. Half a year later I took myself back to train and grade again. The 6 months before this I train every day for at least 2 hours. I was harassing people to come and train with me. I was harassing instructors to come and see me to get more training, And when I took my second test I didn't understand why failed it the first time. It was like this for me because it was so easy the second time. The first time I was not good enough and that's it. So it was only the technical issue. The repetitions, the thinking, the mental ability. Things like this that stopped me the first time. But everybody can do this, every body can achieve expert level if they put their mind into it.

If somebody came to you and asked you why they should do Krav Maga what would you say to them?
Why not! (Laughs)
I would tell them what I believe and that is that Krav Maga is the best system of fighting. The best system for today's problems. We are talking about training outdoors for example. The training is not just in doors. We want to train in different and difficult environments. This is an important part of our training. Krav Maga was designed to give logical, natural, instinctive answers to the problems that we experience.

Also the system is relatively young, it is not traditional. It was designed by IMI, the founder, to be as realistic and natural to learn as possible. This is what stands behind Krav Maga. Krav Maga is, in the IKMF at least, developing with each new problem. With each new problem comes a new solution. Old problem, better solution, we adjust. We don't stay where we are. We try to do different things, to adapt to new problems. In the IKMF we try to move on, to improve and all the time, to find the better solution. Threats change.

krav maga bristol

Is Krav Maga and its training still changing then?
Of course!

With each new problem comes a new solution. When I started Krav Maga 20 years ago, issues like scanning the area, (scanning an area with peripheral vision for more threats), and multiple opponents was not existing in those days.
Multiple opponent training was a small thing. Like two people holding your hands and one trying to hit you. This was a small thing, just a small technique.

Later on it became one with the stick and one with a knife. And then we developed the concept of scanning and dealing with the bigger picture. Seeing what's going on and understanding the effects of stress and tunnel vision. Now today trouble in the streets has changed. The problem has changed so we must adapt and find a new solution. It’s not the gentlemanly way of one-on-one anymore. It's the gang way of multiple attackers. When you meet one there is always a lookout or somebody that is watching out for the attackers. Watching the attackers back and taking care of it while they attack you. If you fight one nowadays, his friends will come to help him.

So, we need to take this into consideration in our training. In the last 6 or 7 years we emphasise this and now today we put this in training at the beginning of our syllabus, in the very first level. So now students learn to scan the area, to be aware of multiple opponents, more attackers, more threats and find the best solution. Because this is a problem that happens today we must address it.

This approach is what makes Krav Maga so good. What makes us ( the IKMF) so good. It’s not a traditional approach, but a logical approach. I want to believe that people will learn by understanding the problem and its solution. This is different to a traditional approach where people do something just because an instructor tells them. It is important people will see there is logic in Krav Maga. There is some kind of thinking behind it. It will not only give them a workout it will get them in the brain. Get them to think and learn, to understand the problem of aggression and then find its solution. In Krav Maga I think this is always our goal, to find the best solution to the problem of self defence.

Thank you for your time Amnon. It was a pleasure speaking with you.

British Krav Maga Association

Amnon Darsa speaks with Paul Grey of Krav Maga Bristol

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